[e2e] overlay over TCP

[Joe Touch]

Randall Stewart wrote:
> Joe Touch wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> RJ Atkinson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps one of the paths forward is for folks who propose new 
>>> transport-layer protocols to also have an informational document
>>> targeted at folks who build firewalls (or other middle boxes) to help
>>> educate them on what the real risks are (and aren't) with the new
>>> protocol and also to give them help on how to implement support for
>>> that new protocol in their middle box...
>>
>>
>>
>> That presumes, IMO, that NAT designers _want_ to incorporate new 
>> protocols.
> 
> 
> I think not.. its more demand that drives the process IMO or
> as put in a move "show me the money" ...
> 
>>
>>> (My assumption here is that the big barrier is confusion/ignorance. :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> For many, as well as many customers, "all new protocols are more 
>> dangerous than current ones" - as confused/ignorant as that may be. 
>> Nevermind how complicated support for SCTP would need to be 
>> (multipath, multistream + NAT rewriting = ?).
> 
> 
> Nope.. you DON'T need to rewrite NAT to do SCTP.. its a simple
> set of changes..

Let's see. You rewrite your NAT to understand a new protocol number, 
where the ports might be, and how to rewrite DATA IN ITS BODY. How do 
you accomplish that without "doing SCTP"?

> You just don't get multi-homing with NAT. But
> if you need a NAT chances are you are not too interested in
> multi-homing anyway.
> 
> R

Well, tell that to people behind multiple firewall NATs at companies 
that would like not to be susceptible to one going down. We have a VPN 
that goes through such NATs (using UDP) that supports multihoming and 
dynamic routing (which is what dynamic choice of a multihomed path is, 
IMO), based on a variant of the X-Bone. But then, you knew I preferred 
modular solutions based on existing protocols rather than rolling a 
vertical stack...

Joe
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