[e2e] Reacting to corruption based loss

[Detlef Bosau]

Cannara wrote:

> product design.  Is that your feeling?  It happens to be mine, on TCP/IP as
> well, since it's so important nowadays, even for our upcoming robotic
> surgeries, where the doc can do them from his/her PC while taking a break from
> surfing in Maui.

Alex, get a life.

The Internet ist still basically a best effort packet switched network.

And as such, it serves its purposes. And quite satisfactory, in my
humble opinion.

When some marketing guys babble about "Internet Telephony" as a i) fully
functional and ii) cheaper replacment for the telephone system,
this seems to me at least questionable, however I often have fun from
that when I read all this funny advertisments :-)

But when it comes to "robotic surgeries" (I think, the first lawsuits
are pending) or perhaps the "Internet version" of this: "Internet remote
surgery", which is even more lunatic, my personal limit of tolerance is
reached.

Please excuse me, but it is not a mousepad or a keyboard lying on the
table in the operating theater. It´s a human being.

We should not forget about the purposes _and_ limitations of the
Internet.

In addition: If you really _need_ some conferening system for supportive
purposes.e.g. during some surgery, it is absolutely no problem to
achieve this via highly proven techniques and services offered by any
telephone company you prefer. And I really do not see any sense in
blaming the Internet when the Internet does not serve a purpose it
really was not intented for.

I´m new to this list. And I do follow the discussions here only for a
few days.

And I´ve learned a lot of things since then. And when there have been
different views on a certain issue, we could discuss that. However, it
took me only three or four days to get a summary of a large number of
your posts:

"The Internet is bad." "The Internet is worth nothing." "The Internet is
broken." "Nobody understands the Internet." "TCP is bad." "TCP is fully
broken."
"TCP does not work." "TCP is brought to is knees when a bug is entering
my kitchen."

Why on earth does this list work pretty fine?

Of course, you will know. Because you know everything. In this respect,
you remind me on our German Foreign Secretary, Joschka Fischer.
In our television news, Joschka Fischer is sometimes simply called "God
Father". Because he knows all things, he can do all thins, and whoever
else knows all and can do all - "GF" knows and does even better.

> 
> So, your hyperbole, like: "endless prattle that TCP is completely broken, IP
> is worthless, it's  all  done  wrong, it will never work, it's insecure, blah
> blah blah blah blah" or "...panic it out of existence" are your own figments,

Please excuse me, but it basically matches my impression too.

> and "endless prattle".  The discussion has always been what can be done to
> improve matters.  I mean that was one thing behind IPv6, wasn't it? :]


Alex, there is an, admittedly little, difference between "the whole
thing is broken" and "the thing can be improved" or "there is still some
flaw and I propose a way to fix it."

I sometimes tend to fail on this one myself. E.g., when I said some days
ago the loss differentiation debate does not come to and end, I must be
careful
not to offend those hundreds of people, who spent years on this issue
and who honestly tried to make contributions here. Perhaps, I have to
learn from that
and correct my own attitude towards other people.

Honestly spoken: In some respect, we are companions in misfortune here.
Perhaps, both of us talk a little bit too much - and don´t listen
enough.
And perhaps both of us have a talent to blame and to offend people -
instead of appreciate them and their work.

> 
> Oh, since you're impressed by, and love saying: "> P.S.: Somehow your mail got
> to me again, and it even traversed the Internet..."  Consider the fully

Alex, this is exactly the style of formulation, which people do not like
from _me_. When I talk that way, people simply leave me alone.
I only can tell you my own experience, but talking to people like that
makes _me_ lonesame and makes _me_ bitter. Other people simply go away.
They do not suffer from that. They do not care.
 
> optical, networks across Europe around 1800 -- Napoleon got lots of reliable
> mail that way, about as quickly you get mine.  Why, the interfaces even had
> compression, encryption and error correction.  {:o]

You are totally correct there. And therefore, I take pride to say: I´m
from the "Old Europe".

The semaphore system was a really great invention. And how much can we
learn from it, when we learn to appreciate this work and not only say,
it is old, it is bad, it is outdated. How much of the basic principles
of discrete coding, the store and forward principile, overlay networks
etc. etc. etc. are adopted from those old examples!


Have a look at Wesley´s homepage.  

http://roland.grc.nasa.gov/~weddy/

Wes has a very wise citation there:

"Mathematicians stand on each other's shoulders while computer
scientists stand on each other's toes." -- R. W. Hamming 

There´s really a deep wisdom in this sentence.

I honestly apologize, when I have offended anyone with this post. This
is definitely _not_ my intention.

However, dear Alex, I really think that you have much to say and we can
learn a lot from your knowledge. But the way you share your knowledge,
the way you write is sometimes, excuse me, I´m no native speaker and in
German I would know how to say what I mean,
it is sometimes a little bit unfortunate. It is sometimes a little bit
difficult to follow.

Exactly as me - I know.

Detlef
-- 
Detlef Bosau
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70565 Stuttgart
Mail: detlef.bosau at web.de
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